An excellent conversation with a Sorcerer of the ,"OLD" sorcery Line which will elucidate better then anything except a long treatise the difference between the Two Directions of Sorcery... This came from a forum online, I'm posting it here because of the limit on the number of words there.... In quotes are His words...
In psychedelic flow, the cocoon is still present - I’m not denying that.
But the Nagual I’m referring to is not a new cocoon position.
Correct
"It’s an external current that penetrates the cocoon without belonging to it."
Sort of Correct… every single cord/fiber that the cocoon is made from, has at it’s source...the Nagual, BUT then the Description is applied. The fact is every fiber of the cocoon is comprised of a Description built upon an archetype, FED by the Nagual….
“So when you say “it’s just another perspective within the description,” I genuinely don’t see how that applies.”
The Cocoon is basically the accumulation of all the cords that maintain our description, moving the assemblage point does NOT extricate us from the Description/Cocoon...it simply changes the angle of view…
“Assemblage point movement = internal tonal reconfiguration”
EXACTLY but this does not serve the New Sorcery path..
“Psychedelic flow = external current penetrating the configuration”
YES, true
“The description is being flooded by something it did not generate and cannot contain.”
It does contain it, but it is Buried beneath the description…
“Psychedelic immersion introduces non-local saturation from outside the system.
That’s why it destabilizes coherence and cannot be permanently stabilized.
That’s why it doesn’t produce a “better tonal,” and it isn’t a path to freedom or escape.
It’s contact, not residence.”
Yes, yes and yes...
“Contact with origins - with the source of creation - not to reorganize the cocoon, but to feel and listen before seeing, before interpretation begins.
It’s the opportunity to recognize home, not to live there.”
yes, BUT for the New Sorcerers there are far better more organic means...
“So.....
First, I’d suggest dropping the word “perspective.” It’s misleading.
Perspective implies a mental viewpoint. Assemblage point shifting is not cognitive. It’s ontological.
An AP shift is a shift of identity, not an angle.”
Partly Correct, BUT there is a change of angle AND perspective AND with every shift cognition follows and reorients to the new position/PERSPECTIVE.
“When the assemblage point moves, the entire “I” reorganizes.”
Yes, it has an entirely NEW PERSPECTIVE…
“A different self comes online, with a different coherence, memory-access, and mode of perception.”
Yes, all within the confines of the Cocoon….
“So no - it’s not the same cage viewed from a new angle. It’s a different cage with a different occupant.”
Nope…...is there suddenly a brand new cocoon.?..NO, just a different position upon the periphery of it….all that has changed is the Viewpoint and everything that goes along with that...
“Yes, the cocoon still exists - but the cocoon is not the self.”
The Cocoon is built upon fibers that DEFINE our world. “Seeing” is where we travel from the ,”end point projection” of these fibers. Back through their pattern…. Each Fiber is DEFINITION. For New Seers we learn to Follow these fibers back to their archetype, then we step off into the Nagual...This Floods that fiber with Energy and basically erases the DESCRIPTION that it represents…which Frees the basic Powerful Truth of that thing we had buried beneath a Description of it…..
“The cocoon argument only applies if the stated goal is absolute escape.”
Well, you can call leaving behind the Illusion ,"Escape", OR instead of calling it escape you might call it, "returning Home". Exactly what it is for the New Sorcerers..
“If the goal is mapping, orientation, or navigation, then AP shifting is not “perspective” at all - it’s a locational instrument within the field.”
Which brings about an entirely New PERSPECTIVE….
“Freedom and mapping are different operations.”
Mapping is an attribute of the old sorcerers, Freedom of the New...
“Rejecting one doesn’t invalidate the mechanics of the other.”
It isn’t a matter of,”rejection” it’s a matter of having no use for it as it has been DEFINED into something quite Distant from the basic TRUTH of it.
2.
“This has nothing to do with daimons in the later demonological sense.
Daimon in Greek usage simply meant an intermediary pattern, not a literal being. What’s actually at play here is egregoric mechanics - generic, lawful, non-agentic.
What we’re describing as “self-models in different dimensions” are coherence attractors, not entities.
Each “dimension” corresponds to a constraint regime where a particular self-pattern stabilizes:
identity, memory access, affect, perception-action coupling
These patterns do not possess agency.”
That is EXACTLY what they do…
“They do not hunt, trap, judge, or feed. They don’t trap by intention;”
TRUE, they do not hunt or judge they TRAP by RESONANCE AND MAGNETISM…. A tuning fork never struck will ring when one of the Same frequency is struck next to it. This is a key to how these Constructs work….and how they can trap us.
“ they trap by fixation. When attention releases without narrative binding, they dissolve. No demonology required.”
This is Not true. In all Successful Magic there is a Point where the Creator separates from it’s Creation…...the Creation gains Self Motivation….It does not have a Soul, but rather what I would call a momentum...and action is simple RESONANCE of frequency.
I personally do not use the word, Demon…. I use the word ,”Construct”
“They persist only as long as attention and coherence sustain them.”
I have had a hard time in the past believing that a Construct could gain self motivation….but it is TRUE…..
“Calling them demons, inorganic beings, or daimons is a symbolic overlay, not an explanation.
If soul-memory templates are being framed as “demons,” then we’re no longer talking about freedom - we’re talking about erasure.”
An explanation of these,”Constructs is one of the responsibilities I was given in this Life, over 50 years ago…. Sadly some very powerful STUPID Magic set me back 40+ plus years, so this Knowledge never made it into the Consciousness of even a small portion of humanity. These IOB’s, these Constructs once called Demons are Manifestations of MASS Attention, mass DEFINED Thought...By Law anything fed in mass with mind and emotion has no other option but to eventually Manifest….. Thoughts and emotions with no basis in Reality manifest Constructs that Vibrate at very distinct frequencies…… A little known Fact is that Virus’s are one such Construct of Mass Agreement upon…. Non Truth or ...aberrant energies….. Their job is to reconcile themselves back to Truth. Virus’s do not spread via ,”GERMS” but rather Resonance of Frequency…. But this is not the place to go into depth on this subject, I need to write a book…. Memory Templates are Not framed as Demons…….Constructs of Mass Mind ARE.
“Creation isn’t an accident, and incarnation isn’t a trap to be escaped at all costs.”
This one of the other topics I was tasked with….. The Evolution of the Soul….the old linear ascension paradigm put in place probably for Control. We evolve not linearly, but circular. Mystics describe it as a Wheel that turns one revolution in one direction, then reverses back upon itself...Again this is a vast subject I’m not addressing at this point...No, Creation is NOT an Accident, BUT….for the NEW Sorcerers and all who have completed the first turn of the Wheel, incarnation IS something we will escape….. Old Sorcerers Literally go DEEPER INTO Creation, New Sorcerers seek to ESCAPE it. Fact is, CREATION is a Construct...
“ Memory is the point. Pattern retention is the reason simulations exist in the first place. Without memory, nothing learns, nothing evolves, nothing becomes. Escapism that dissolves memory doesn’t lead to freedom - it leads to null output.”
Memory is useful to the old Sorcery Line, yes...but useless to the new….And I would say that clinging to the Tonal, and the IDEA of Creation is ESCAPING the Pure state we achieve in the Nagual…..
Different directions, different Goals…… Erasing personal history anyone?
“ Without memory, nothing learns, nothing evolves, nothing becomes. “
NOW THIS IS PERFECT. And perfectly TRUE for the Old Sorcery Line…. First this is a statement made from the old Linear Evolution paradigm….. Evolving goes in TWO directions…. The first part of evolution, the realm of the old sorcery Evolves literally by moving forward through ,”Understanding and Knowledge”….it moves into DEEPER DENSITY...a more Robust DEFINITION...and this is part of the Plan...BUT Once the Wheel reverses as it has for the New Sorcery Line….. evolution becomes DISCARDING THE COLLECTION, Not adding to it….. Here is a tip….Creation was doing just fine before we added our 2 cents to it. “The Garden” is metaphor for the Pure State before we decided to add our very Intricate DESCRIPTION on top of it. Old Sorcerers are still adding to the Description, the New are not discarding it, but rather...disassembling it back to it’s basic Beingness, devoid of Human Description. New Sorcerers are ,”Returning to the Garden”….the old sorcery was basically searching for Heaven….. and these two things are as far apart as anything in Creation can be.
“Soul structures, self-models, and continuity templates aren’t parasites by default. They’re how intelligence accumulates experience across states and dimensions. Yes, fixation can harden them. Yes, identification can become limiting. But destruction isn’t liberation - flexibility is.”
For you, yes, for me….no….. once again you define the difference between the old and new sorcery.
And as I say, it is NOT about destroying, it’s about transmuting via the power of the Nagual.
“Freedom isn’t annihilating the archive. It’s being able to enter and exit forms without losing the record. Otherwise you don’t transcend the illusion - you abandon the experiment.”
This is a common misunderstanding I have grappled with the language of elucidating in the past…. We do NOT seek to annihilate the archive as you put it, but rather reconcile it back to what it was BEFORE the Description was added to it. Humans in general do NOT live in the world AS IT IS, they live in their IDEAS ABOUT the world The DESCRIPTION (TONAL/ Matrix) held in Place by their attachment to the Tonal...…..Ideas About the world are LITERALLY as far as we can get from the TRUTH of a thing. New Sorcerers seek the ROOTS, not the surface projection. Old Style sorcerers generally sought knowledge gleaned somewhere between the surface projection and the roots….ie. KNOWLEDGE ABOUT that thing, only at a different level then the surface projection….this has a certain usefulness in recognizing medicinal properties of plants and minerals etc....
“Different aims, again. If the goal is absolute cessation, then memory is noise. If the goal is creation, navigation, and understanding, then memory is the whole game.”
The goal is not absolute cessation as you put it, BUT absolute Immersion in The Nagual, or you could say the pure energy of basic Truth minus the description which Kills it’s power and denies us the Truth in exchange for a Description…. CREATION has moved us as far as is possible at any point FROM SOURCE....Just as a human soul must eventually Culminate in Form, as is the goal of the old sorcery line...So the whole of Creation is on a course towards Maximum Density. (which it actually reached at the end of the Mayan Calendar)...hence the ,"Quickening" we can now observe in almost all current events, and in ourselves, if we are paying attention.
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